Hi Every one
Alan from jardines 2 any one had a email from PW about a meeting last week
I've just heard that the community charge for a top apartment is Euro 110 and Euro 130 for a ground floor apartment anyone got any views on this , if this is the case PW are taking the P!!! as we were quoted about Euro 75 per month for our top floor apartment plus they are looking to back date this from July 08.
Looks like another meeting to be held over the easter holiday do not know the date but we are out there in March so we hope to find out more then.


Keep Smilling Camper

Alan & Maureen

Ps Crap at Spelling

Just back from Condado and I did attend the meeting for Jardines. Firstly it took a matter of minutes to fill the small room they had provided for the meeting as I think they did expect the amount of perople that turned up, mainly bcause they didn't tell anyone !!! However the word did filter out. They had to quickly prepare a bigger room for the numbers that turned out and basically the meeting totally ended in a shambles. The Spanish did a great job on behalf of us all and were very animated and forceful in respect of the issues. It was a very frustating meeting with people constantly interupting and asking questions about insignificant issues and Barry was right it just wasn't the forum for discussing individuals issues and moans.

I don't think people understand the importance of this meeting and the setting of the community charges. The management company are suggesting between 100 and 130 euros a month for the 3 bed ground floor apartments, however when we asked the question, well how much are you intending to take from our bank account the answer was 130 euros and it will start in March and 3 months will be taken 390 euros!!! Also they are intending to back date like Barry said until a month after you completed and they will start to take the backdating amount in April at 2 months each time. So in April they intend to take two months, in our case 260 euros, the same in May, the same in June, July will be 3 months etc.

These figures are likely to cause many people financial difficulties and some of the people at the meeting were extremely worried for their future as they are trying to make ends meet on pensions etc. and with the bad exchange rate this is a major blow.

The meeting was being "chaired" by 4 representatives from the management company (not Polaris) and I think the polite way to put it is that they were cannon fodder!!! they were not of a strong enough personality to handle the meeting and when the Spanish got started they completely lost the meeting. The President of Polaris, yes him off the advert!!, then came into the meeting and tried to rescue the management company and the meeting. He agreed that it was not they way to run a meeting and the fact that we should have been provided with the necessary documentation and the "proposed" accounts for 2009 at least 2 weeks before the meeting. They basically put the "proposed" estimated accounts for 2009 up on a screen and expected people just to agree them and not ask questions. Just to give you an example and one thing that stood out a mile and people jumped all over it was a figure of over 188k euros a year to maintain the TV ariel system !! that figure actuall came out a hell of a lot more than the security firm it was farcical.

I could go on for ages as the meetings lasted hours but what was plain to see we need to elect Presidents and vice Presidents for each Jardin and Penthouses etc and then the main President and Vice President overall andthe most important thing is that either the President or the Vice President MUST be spanish speaking and live permanently on Condado otherwise we will get nowhere. They is a guy living on Jardines 1 and is doing a lot of research on our behalf and will be sending out information as he gets it, if you want the information he is asking for you to send your e-mail address to him, he is from Venezuela and spanish speaking and also speaks English. He is called Sergio and has previous experience of being President of a similar set up in Venezuela, Sergio cannot state strongly enough how important this issue is and that we need to be on board and that action needs to be taken as a matter of urgency hence why I have been asked to put it on the forum. Sergio's e-mail address is sergiof1955@yahoo.com

THE ABOVE IS A MESSAGE I HAVE PUT ON ANOTHER FORUM AND I HAVE COPIED AND PASTED IT ON HERE FOR YOUR INFORMATION

This is an absolute disgrace, I have had no correspondance to say this.

It goes from bad to worse. When I agreed to buy the property I was told it would not be ready until 2009. Then when this was forced upon me there no mention of back dating this charge. Why didn't they do this in the first place.

Is this the final agreement

Below is an e-mail received from one of the Residents at Condado

Letter in English is below this.

Estimados vecinos:

Debido al fracaso de la asamblea del día 20/02/09, POLARIS esta planeando hacer una asambleas por separado, es decir, por cada jardín, PH, etc., Lo cual me recuerda ese dicho que dice: "divide y vencerás". Por tal motivo, debemos ponernos de acuerdo y llevar una sola posición.

Sabemos que hay muchas cosas que arreglar como las cuotas de comunidad, y varios servicios, pero para poder solucionar cada uno de estos problemas, necesitamos ejercer nuestro poder en la junta de la comunidad. Esto es importantísimo para defender nuestros derechos en el futuro.

Próximamente les enviare un mensaje con una dirección de correo al cual hacer llegar sus ideas y para incluir mas vecinos a nuestra causa.

Sergio L. Fuenmayor.


Dear friends:

After the failure of the last meeting (20/02/09), POLARIS is planning separate meetings to settle the community. This remember me that quotation: "divide and conquer". For this reason we have organize and to support one position before the administrators.

I know that there are several problems to resolve, but the most important is to have active representatives to defend our interests now and in the future.

I will send you an e-mail address to address with yours ideas and for contacting more neighbors.


Sergio L. Fuenmayor

Hello Sergio,

We would do anything to support you in your attempts to 'check' PW & Co from taking advantage of all of us, who have purchased on Condada having been told that community charges would NOT be more than 75 euros.

regards

Terry & Fran ( Jardines 8)

Community charges

Community charges are something to consider when buying an off plan property, as around 90% of property sold in Spain is part of an ‘urbanization’, which is usually an enclosed complex often with a communal pool, garden and underground parking.

Once constructed, a new property is then handed over to the ‘community’ and all the owners of properties within that complex form part of the community, usually electing a management committee who oversee the formation of the rules and regulations concerning the urbanization and also agree on annual community charges, although all members of the community have equal rights.

Costs usually cover pool and garden maintenance and general upkeep of the development and as a rough guide cost in the region of £800 - £1000 per year. It is important to consider all these extra costs before entering into any contract.

FORGIVE ME FOR ASKING SOME SILLY QUESTIONS?

Have we elected a management committee who have agreed to these silly prices?

In the region of £800 - £1000 well according to the information coming out of Spain we will be paying 1560.

ABSOLUTE DISGRACE!

Having spoken to a large number of owners and having attended the 'farce' assembly.I think a way forward to prevent others from becoming commited to financial exploitation from PW is to make the tabloid press aware in the UK what comes with a purchase of a PW property. We are considering going to the Murdoch Organisation and the BBC consumer watchdog about the situation in MURCIA.There is no doubt that PW apartments are loverly but they seem to come with cryptic & crippling costs.

Terrance & Fran (Jardines8)

As i said in my first post PW are taking the P115 the more people that know about this the better lets go public
PW will not like that.
Any one got Jack Nicklaus phone number (ha ha )

Alan Jardines 2

Going to the media isnt always the best idea- we want people interested in CdA- which has much to offer - not turned away from it. There are people still buying in Spain especially at the low prices some people have to sell at now. Do we want them put off when there's much to be said about PW resorts that's positive? (if there wasnt we all wouldnt have shown any interest in the first place) If people advertise to sell their property they often default on their c/charge and that money gets split onto the remaining owners and residents fees.
PW should be paying the unsold properties c/charge fees but once they have completed its down to the owner (to default /not to default).

We havent elected this committee they are put in place by PW- standard practice by developers- but before we chuck them out we must look at what has happened at La Torre and the massive debt they were in before the charges were set- similar to CdA- tlking miilions of euros, as wages have to be paid. We have to pay for everything that has been set up from when residency began. La Torre got rid of two committees before the one they set up themselves pulled it all together and thats taken over a year. You need people who can manage finance and organise tenders- this isnt a game and finding companies who will be reliable with the gardening and the pools and the roads and the bins isnt an easy or inexpensive task. We are being charged for all that and from when residency began and spilt between existing completed properties with a reveiw in about a year and hopefully when La Isla Golf suites and Villa Jana are completed costs will come down.

Dont get me wrong we are unhappy about the rates as published but this situation has to be handled correctly not kneejerked into oblivion. Driving customers away is shooting us in our own foot. We are going to have enough problems with people who just dont pay the fee's- believe me when I say the rest of us will pay. Our understanding was that there would just be a set fee- not that it was a percentage- but we were advised wrongly. Therein lies the problem for us all.

I agree completely with jim jim we must not go public even if our instincs tell us to. This has to be resolved within the community and we must do nothing to jeapodise future development for future development is what will reduce our share of the costs.

Mick

Yes people you are right about going public this is what forums are for to get people talking .
having read what jim has said i completely agree.
Unite Fight And Win.

Cheers

Alan (Jardines 2 )

Ps we are over next weekend any one up for a beer

We have heard nothing from PW about last weeks meeting and I hope the management committe dont just start to take the fees from March. I understand that the back fees are only due from the month after completion on your property but even so the plan to take 3 months at a time is galling. I think we feel rather duped because we had misunderstood the community fee position believing there was a set rate for the size of a property rather than all this percentage stuff. Thats more our mistake and as we have experience in living in community properties all the more annoying. Until 2 months ago we were fortunate to have another apartment in Morocco but there we paid an annual set fee- there are less amentities though, golf, bar, pools . However it just proves the point- read the small print. We have lived on La Torre and discussed these things with resients and owners and didnt take it all on board.

I digress but think approaching the media would be a big mistake- many people cant afford their own UK home at present- how little they would care for our situation. Plus we dont want to put off prospective buyers, because CdA has still got a lot to offer even with a bit of PW trimming and I do know there are buyers out there. If we still had a bit more stretch in the budget we would be buying a golf suite apartment as was our original plan alongside the apartments we have on CdA and I still think alot of people will be looking at the prices and plan to buy- bad press will affect us all.

We have to hope that the management committee see a bit of sense and moderate everything

I understand this is the English version of a letter that has been sent to Polaris earlier this month by the Condado de Alhama Association, a group formed after the 20 Feb General Meeting. I will copy this letter to the other relevant thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=908


Mr. D. JOSE LUIS HERNANDEZ DE ARCE
Company S.L. Alhama Golf Resort
Parque Empresarial Polaris Golf (Building No. 1)
Autovía Murcia-San Javier Km 18 (Balsicas)
38591 - MURCIA


Dear Sir:


We would like to convey our gratitude for their presence at the Annual General Meeting Alhama County, held last February 20, which will be able to channel development.

As you found the Board had become very tense, given the precarious situation in which the services of more than 2,000 dwellings have been delivered and the gardens and Los Naranjos, according to figures from the Manager of the Resort "The County of Alhama.

The owners, under the slogan that has become popular that you buy more than one dwelling, ie services that differentiate from the rest of the Polaris Resort, we found that so far have not met expectations his motto was intended, but what is more worrying, a breach of the terms offered in the many publications and promotional brochures for the sale of housing Resort Condado de Alhama ", as we will explain below, the approximately 130 owners we have gathered to give a list of priority needs in order to proceed to resolve them, as we requested in the above reunion.

We feel extremely serious non construction of shopping centers in the forum, the Agora and Oasis contained in the various promotional brochures and buying cause serious deficiencies in services for homeowners who are currently residing in County Alhama.

Without abandoning the ways necessary to build these shopping centers, we understand that the mall The Forum must meet certain minimum conditions and essential, given the precarious and provisional understandings of the supermarket and bar currently constructed in the space of the gym and constituting an element of bad image, which is derived not only clear penalties for the owners but also for the very Polaris World.
Therefore, we consider a priority that the Forum should be equipped with the following services:

• Supermarket food.
• Restaurants.
• Bars, cafes, ice cream parlors.
• ATMs.
• Spa.
• Nursery.
• Dry cleaning and laundry.
• Pharmacy.
• Center for medical attention.
• Books and newspapers.
• Clothing Stores
• Other ...

You must understand that our demands are not only the result for the services that you offer and advertised in its day and that were critical to making the decision to purchase, but also because County Alhama is isolated from nearby cities or towns that could eventually fill the gaps in services that currently suffer from the nearly 2,000 current owners of the Resort.

Another priority that we consider of vital importance is the Club House, which must provide services commensurate with the level of the designer's name for the field of golf: Jack Niclause. Therefore, the Club should provide the following services:

• Sala Vip.
• Cafeteria.
• Restaurants.
• Gym.
• Bus to play at other golf courses of Polaris and stopping at Mazarrón.
• Jacuzzi.
Indoor swimming pool (important for living in winter).
• And other services required by the golf course.


The golf course, for everybody's sake, should urgently begin construction of the final 18 holes and imminent launch of the first 9 holes and driving range, which may provide an incentive for prospective buyers of homes or to rent the same .

On the latter we call your attention that almost all the owners acquired the house by our love of golf and others, as mere investors, but betting on the 3 "great" golf courses that claim to perform many customers.

Finally, we would like to make a reflection on the current services we offer and that Polaris World are reduced at this time exclusively to the custody of keys and clearing houses. Where are the rest of the services we offer and offer for the purchase of housing, "such as: houses full of life, his home care, better care for your garment, a luxury, service, babysitter, a world undiscovered natural and a long etcetera. we do not want to expose too long not to our letter. Incidentally, in the "We want to be well connected," we were surprised by his explanation at the meeting of February 20 on the cost of the annual budget. We believe Polaris has the obligation to provide facilities to the resort at a reasonable price and not about making unsustainable levels of housing costs.

Chapter deserves the water issue, the main axis for the future of the Resort. The desalination plant, whose design is explained in all the sales of homes that would produce 56,000 m3/day and was under construction by the end of 2006, it never supine, so I would be most grateful if he could explain as will be resolved to make the future of water in the Resort.

Mr. Hernandez, we believe it is time to solve the supply of services in a friendly and reasonable, meaning that we are aware that those should be implemented in a phased manner depending on the number of owners, but you can not leave services requiring the approximately 2,000 owners who must now use them. It would be beneficial to either party that the dissatisfaction was installed at the owners and the public beyond the grave consequences it would bring to market future phases of Condado de Alhama.
Ultimately, Mr. Hernández, please carefully consider our requests and will provide a prioritized action plan and execution, to resolve existing problems, without resorting to unwanted situations by any of the current owners.


Awaiting your reply, Yours sincerely,

Hi there,

We are in Jardin 4 and the last time I spoke to some residents, I undertood that the last meeting did not go that well. The only thing I got is that there will be a meeting and that's all. No time, no place, no date mentionned although I sent an email requesting that. So in term of communication and if we were talking about 5 star service, we are still behind.
As for the charges, I think it's not fair as we have been told that we'll be paying around 70-75 euros when we decided to go ahead with the purchase. Now it looks like it's gonna be more of 120-130 which is as someone said a "RIP OFF".
We all were expecting a Golf course, a big shopping centre...etc (very important not to say critical points before the purchase) so PW must deliver first before asking for money.
The other point is defining responsabilities. What has to be paid by the residents and what is the Ayuntamiento of Alhama responsability (specially for the outside ring)

Is there any mailing list we can join or something like that? as we are not in Spain and we'll not be able to participate actively. But we are 100% with the group that is starting to take shape and who is defending our interests.

Hopefully at the next meeting we'll be able to attend. Just need the correct date.

Kind regards,

Zidane.

hi zidane

we are also on jardine 4,and agree with exactly how u feel about the whole approach,
if u hear any more please let us know, the jardines have our full backing.
we are coming out for the easter hols,8th apr to 15th hope to see some new faces
all the best
frazzell sue and boys
no.390

"Sergio" <asocondadodealhama@yahoo.com

Hi everyone
I got an e mail today from the resort management company and wonder did anyone else recieve something similar. (unfortunatly I am completly thick when it comes to using a computor so can't put the actual e mail on here to show you but in a nutshell it says...)
Fees for jan-feb 2009 ground floor 120.95 per month
first floor 100.98 per month
This fees are to be paid every 3 months
Fees for 2008 ground floor 29.67 per month
first floor 24.77 per month
When these fees are to be paid has yet to be decided (at another meeting?) and are at a reduced cost because not all facilities were in place(?)
Also on e mail was an attachment to be fill in with all our personal details and bank details.
I'm a bit confused as i thought that the residents had to agree to fees and do they only cover us for our particular jardine or include the golf courses etc as well.
help!

Hi,

I received the email as well so I was going to wait to talk to people about it this weekend as I'm heading to Spain tomorrow. If this is a meeting, can someone drop by Jardin 1 no. 91 and let me know. I'd hate to miss it.

Thanks,
Eibhlis.

Hi eibhlist,
Iwould be very grateful that if you get any information while in Spain you would let me /us know when you get back
thanks

English version of email sent out to owners on 15th April:

On April 6th of 2009, as you know, the committee held two meetings of owners. Both were positive.

The first with the manager and some of our subcontractors.

The second with the president of Polaris.

Agreements reached at the first meeting

1. The election of officers and adoption of the budget for 2009, will be one general meeting to be held in Alhama de Murcia and will be as soon as possible.

2. Security has established a security protocol, because lately it left much to be desired


Proposes a cut in the budget for security at about 120,000 € / year, leaving only a caretaker for gardens and orange groves.

The 2nd Guard come to serve only a few days (8 days per month and by surprise).

3. Gardening and cleaning are achieved cuts of € 50,296 and 40,368 of STV Ciscocompany without reducing services.

They continue, with both companies for a discount of 2 additional € 50,000, with a reduction in the maintenance of the ring

4. 83520 administration cut without reducing services

5. In liability insurance cut 9584 € / year.

6. In telecommunications, we have a 2nd budget, a cut in the maintenance service on the weekends that would save 150,000 €.

7. The fund reserves to take account of these cuts were reduced by € 92,000.


With all these spending cuts, the contributions of community will be smaller and will enter into force once approved the new budget revenue and expenditure, after the general meeting of incorporation of the community.

Requires the incorporation of the island and the forum, which will alter the weightings for the level 1, with a tendency to decrease.

Upon the establishment of the reserve fund, if that is not consumed in the performance for some unexpected big share fall next year by about 20%.

At the meeting with Polaris, its chairman told us:

1.-The forum opens in late July 2009 and will have a rice, an Irish pub and a pizzeria-Tratoria. In addition to a supermarket of 1,200 m.

The supermarket will become interim gym and bar Alhama County off the tennis courts will be retained.

Access to sports, will be from the summer, only for the exclusive use of residents.

2.-The golf driving range opened in August 2009

3.-The field with 18 holes, opened in November 2009.

4.-The home club, will be provisional, wood, similar to the Hacienda Riquelme, until you can do one of the features that this field requires. Future construction is yet to be determined.

5.-The telecommunications service will arrive in May.

Now we're trying to settle the issue by the administrator of the lighting in the road outside the garden and that is the general call as soon as possible to the April 25 or on May 2.

Atte .- County Commission Alhama owners.


By 'field' he means 'golf course' and by 'home club' he means 'club house'.

Excellent news foxy!! It sounds like the finances are under control from now and our community fees will reduce a bit more in line with what we all originally thought. We have to remember that this is and needs to be an exclusive resort and one that we can all be proud of, however we don't want these maintenance companies taking the p**s!. Keep us informed as to what happens next and fingers crossed the recession will end soon and Polaris will start selling and building again.

Thanks Steve & Jackie Lancaster

we all must remember what we where promised.
and by a long way as not been provided
so lets not get carried away Polaris have not been good to there word
them of us with a spanish mortgage have mostly been paying well over the odds for 6 mouths
because the property where so called key ready,
this money cam bank and polaris have taken should go and pay towards the community charge so there should be no back dating payments
i will pay when the resort can be lived in by holiday people ,
lets not forget cam bank where pushing to get people in
so they are well involved
LA TORRE is now overwhelmed by no less than Gypsy's who are renting off owners that are quite willing to rent
to this type off person to cover costs and don't really care about living the dream or have they been put into a financial nightmare by cam and Polaris
5 star for as much as 100 e per week unfurnished i
we will not end up having that type of Gypsy but a much worse type of person because of our lack of facilities

Somebody doesn't appear to be seeing the big picture!! We are in a recession and although Polaris haven't provided all the facilities that they promised, they will do eventually and the Foro Town Centre will be open in July with the Golf Course to follow shortly after. If Polaris were to continue building at the rate they were then they would be long gone by now (in receivership) and the resort would never get finished. I appreciate that a lot of people have bought property to rent but it was never going to be all open and the facilities built at the click of two fingers. It was always going to be a 10 year plan from start to finish and if you wanted a property to rent out immediately then maybe you should have bought on a completed resort rather than off-plan - why do you think they were/are so cheap compared to completed resorts, it is because you are buying off-plan and work will be ongoing until it is completed. If you bought it to make a quick buck, then you will have to wait until the recession is over and the resort is a bit more advanced I'm afraid!! If it was easy to make money quickly then everybody would do it.

The big picture is whats happening at La Torra the furnished project
I bet when you brought you did not think your property would
now be worth 30% lower then what you paid ,that's what i call a quick buck
and when and i hope not immigrants start renting you will be down 70%
no more to say hope I'm wrong but keep your eyes on the big picture